Suggested Discussion Outline

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johnkarls
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Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:43 pm

Suggested Discussion Outline

Post by johnkarls »

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A. Review of Roe v. Wade which is both Libertarian and Strict Constructionist per Short Quiz Q&A-10 (quoting ver batim from the 7-2 majority opinion):

“A state criminal abortion statute of the current Texas type, that excepts from criminality only a life-saving procedure on behalf of the mother, without regard to pregnancy stage and without recognition of the other interests involved, is violative of the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

“(a) For the stage prior to approximately the end of the first trimester, the abortion decision and its effectuation must be left to the medical judgment of the pregnant woman's attending physician.

“(b) For the stage subsequent to approximately the end of the first trimester, the State, in promoting its interest in the health of the mother, may, if it chooses, regulate the abortion procedure in ways that are reasonably related to maternal health.

“(c) For the stage subsequent to viability, the State in promoting its interest in the potentiality of human life [410 U.S. 113, 165] may, if it chooses, regulate, and even proscribe, abortion except where it is necessary, in appropriate medical judgment, for the preservation of the life or health of the mother.

“The State may define the term "physician," as it has been employed in the preceding paragraphs of this Part XI of this opinion, to mean only a physician currently licensed by the State, and may proscribe any abortion by a person who is not a physician as so defined.”


B. State Statistics Re Third Trimester Abortions

21 ban abortion after fetal viability
4 ban abortion in the third trimester
8 ban abortion after a certain number of weeks (generally 24, or in the third trimester)
8 ban abortion after 20 weeks on the grounds that a fetus can feel pain at that point
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41 sub-total
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9 do NOT ban third-trimester abortions
NB: only 4 known practitioners per After Tiller and 2 practice in Arizona


C. After Tiller, the movie (and things to watch for in After Tiller)

C-1. Step 1 in third-trimester abortion is a lethal injection to the heart so that the mother’s health and her ability to have children in the future are preserved by natural childbirth, albeit of a dead fetus.

C-2. Reasons given in parental interviews --
C-2-a. Most often, it is a fetal abnormality.
C-2-b. After Tiller ignores whether the fetal abnormality could have been discovered earlier.
C-2-c. Other reasons.

C-3. Inconsistencies in deciding whether to provide a third trimester abortion --
C-3-a. The initial parental interviews imply there is always a good reason.
C-3-b. However, at least one practitioner is shown toward the end of the movie rejecting a patient who did NOT have a good reason in the judgment of that practitioner.
C-3-c. On the other hand, at least one practitioner is shown early in the movie saying that he NEVER rejects a patient because he is fearful of what she may otherwise do, citing his experience with a woman who attempted to abort her baby with a Chinese-restaurant chop stick (he, the practitioner, does not clarify whether she was his patient -- and, if so, whether he had rejected her request for an abortion or whether she had only become his patient after the botched abortion).


D. Abortion Techniques

D-1. First trimester method of choice = Intra-Uterine Device (IUD)

D-1-a. IUD’s are one of the three main birth-control methods = Prophylactics, IUD’s (Intra-Uterine Devices), and The Pill
D-1-b. IUD’s are designed so that normal body movement will cause the IUD, like a sentry on patrol, to scrape 100% of the uterine walls so that no newly-fertilized egg can attach itself to the uterine walls and begin to grow. Or if the woman is already pregnant, to scrape the uterine walls and cause the young fetus to become detached.

D-2. Second trimester abortion technique(s) = ???

D-3. Third trimester abortions --

D-3-a. Per After Tiller (as mentioned above), the proper procedure = Step 1, a lethal injection to the fetal heart, followed by natural childbirth of the dead fetus in order to preserve the mother’s health and her ability to have children in the future.

D-2-b. In May 2013, Dr. Kermit Gosnell was convicted on 3 of 8 murder charges for his procedure of having mothers give birth to live babies, following which he would snip the spinal cords of the babies -- the jury found “beyond a reasonable doubt” that 3 of the babies would otherwise have survived. [Dr. Gosnell was also convicted on 21 felony counts of performing third term abortions which are prohibited in Pennsylvania.]


E. The Position of the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) Re Abortion

E-1. RCC opposition to abortion (and birth control) on the grounds that Christianity trumps civil government, even though the RCC position on Liberation Theology is that civil government trumps Christianity.

E-2. The common public assumption that the RCC speaks for Protestant Denominations taking the United Methodist Church (UMC) as an example --

E-2-a. The UMC, since 2012, has embraced Roe v. Wade on the grounds that civil government trumps Christianity.

E-2-b. Even prior to 2012, the UMC condoned abortion provided: (1) it is legal in the jurisdiction in which it occurs, (2) proper medical procedures are employed, (3) parental notification is required for minors, (4) abortion is not a means of gender selection, (5) abortion does not comprise “late-term abortion” (aka “partial birth abortion”); and (6) thoughtful and prayerful consideration is employed and is accompanied with medical, family, pastoral and other appropriate counsel. [NB re No. 2: The courts have ruled that a requirement for parental consent of minors without a judicial bypass is unconstitutional, but that merely a requirement for parental notification is constitutional.]

E-2-c. Nonetheless, one of our regular Reading Liberally members (a retired UMC minister) thought the UMC position on abortion was the same as the RCC ban on abortion.


F. Short Quiz Q&A-27 = At what point between conception and the age of 3 do you think the right to life should commence??? What is the reason for your opinion???

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