Suggested Discussion Outline

After 8.5 years, John Karls is taking a sabbatical through year end from serving as the facilitator for our group, as described in greater detail in the sixth and seventh sections below.

In the meantime, we are having occasional discussions of political topics without elaborate preparations and following ad hoc arrangements.
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Suggested Discussion Outline

Post by johnkarls »

Bcc: The Approx. 150 Recipients Of Our Regular E-mails
Subject: Meeting THIS COMING WED – Sep 3rd
Date: To be e-mailed Sat, Aug 30, 2014

(1) NicklausRoad-DrivingDirections.pdf
(2) RL-a810-GoldbergInterviewOfHillary
(3) RL-a816-SuggestedAnswersToTheShortQuiz
(4) RL-a821-TimRussertMeetThePressInterviewTranscript-SenArmedServicesChNunn+SenFgnRelChLugar+9/11CommissionChair&ViceChairKean&Hamilton-5/29/2005
(5) RL-a816-BidenOpEd-WSJ-6-4-2007

Editorial Note - attachments 2-5 are posted elsewhere on this Bulletin Board

Dear Friends,

The pleasure of your company and the intellectual stimulation of your views are respectfully requested for THIS COMING WEDNESDAY evening, Sep 3rd, from 6:30 pm to 9:00 pm at the home of Yours Truly at 11911 Nicklaus Road, Sandy UT 84092 which features a gorgeous 180-degree panoramic view of Hidden Valley and Hidden Valley Country Club from a ridge 200 feet above them (map & driving directions are attached).

If you have not already RSVP’d, please do so if you plan to come (there is plenty of room so all are welcome but we do need to know for how many to set up -- including Pinot Grigio and Sushi from Yours Truly in addition to our traditional coffee & cookies).


Our focus will be the 8/10/2014 article in Atlantic in which Hillary Clinton distanced herself from Pres. Obama re The Islamic State in Syria & Iraq. [A copy of the Atlantic article is attached for your convenience.]

What to do, if anything, about Al Qaeda in Iraq (aka ISIS aka ISIL aka The Islamic State) which would probably mean Iraq War III -- vs. conserving America’s resources for solving domestic problems -- is probably the most important decision President Obama will ever make.

President Obama announced two days ago (Aug 28) that he has NOT decided whether to bomb AQI-ISIS-ISIL-TIS in Syria.

And, to date, he has not even announced any decision to bomb in Iraq except (1) to protect our consulate in Erbil in the Kurdish area and (2) for a small humanitarian mission which he subsequently announced had been completed -- EVEN THOUGH we did bomb in support of the re-capture of the Mosul Dam which is beyond the scope of either of the two projects that President Obama has announced he has authorized.


It is respectfully suggested that we focus on the following Questions from the Short Quiz, for which the Suggested Answers were “What Do You Think – Let’s Discuss” --

Q-13. Is Hillary right that an exception to this policy [refusing to become involved in any new wars in order to conserve our resources for domestic needs] is required to avoid 10 million Americans being nuked IAW Osama bin Laden’s fatwa [which cannot be revoked now that Osama is dead]?

[Please see the attached 5/29/2005 Meet The Press transcript of an interview of Sam Nunn (D-Ga - former Senate Armed Services Committee Chair), Richard Lugar (R-In – the then-current Chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee), and Thomas Kean and Lee Hamilton (Chair and Vice-Chair of The 9/11 Commission) as they argued for countering Osama bin Laden’s fatwa to nuke 10 million Americans by following the recommendation of The Founding Dean of Harvard U’s Kennedy School of Government about how to deal with Osama’s fatwa to nuke Americans –- for the curious, the recommendation was NEVER implemented.]

[Please also see attached the 6/4/2007 OpEd written by Vice President Joe Biden at the beginning of his campaign for the Presidency while he was still Chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, which was motivated by Osama bin Laden’s fatwa to nuke 10 million Americans and which was entitled “CSI: Nukes” because Biden proposed that since fissile material has “DNA” that proves the country of origin, the U.S. should announce a policy of “nuclear annihilation” against any country whose fissile materials are used by terrorists in a nuclear attack on the U.S.]

Q-14. Or can America co-exist with The Islamic State and meet the nuclear threat that it poses to 10 million Americans in some other way?

Q-15. If America opts for “some other way,” would America be happy if the success of the “other way” depends on such things as water boarding? Or an even more extensive eavesdropping on both Americans and foreigners?

Q-16. If America does not want to fight Iraq War III, is there really any other way to defeat Al Qaeda in Iraq (aka ISIS aka ISIL aka The Islamic State)?

Q-17. In other words, isn’t the idea of Iraq which was a creation of the League of Nations in 1920 following the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in World War I -- an idea that has passed into history because the former territory of Iraq has been permanently partitioned on a de facto basis into The Islamic State (which extends into Syria), a Shiite area (which may soon be absorbed by Iran) and, if someone will supply arms to the Kurds, a Kurdish area? In other words, that Iraqi-Prime-Minister-Designate Haider al-Abadi doesn’t really stand a Ghost Of A Chance of persuading the Sunnis to re-join Iraq (and the Kurds, if given arms by somebody, may achieve their dream of an Independent Kurdistan simply by virtue of their geographic separation from Haider al-Abadi’s Shiite area)?

Q-18. Or in yet other words, is there any possibility of winning a War of Ideas with a people who are obligated to execute Osama bin Laden’s fatwa to nuke 10 million Americans?

Supplemental Q: Should America become the air force of Iran’s Bagdad pawn and, in addition, the air force of Iran’s Syrian-Government pawn?

After all, as we have studied in the past –-

(A) eight Arab countries (Turkey, Egypt and the Gulf State Arab Six = Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, The United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Bahrain and Oman) have each announced repeatedly that each will go nuclear as soon as non-Arab (i.e., Persian) Iran does; and

(B) if Iran starts a nuclear war (which appears likely in view of the frequent reckless statements of Ayatollah Khamenei), 3.5 billion of the earth's 7 billion human population would immediately no longer be sustainable (because 50% of the world’s oil supplies come from the Persian/Arab Gulf or downwind, and virtually all of the world's fertilizers are made from petrochemicals);



Several RSVP-ers noticed that Hillary’s interview in The Atlantic included some comments in support of Israel and thought the Palestinian issue should be a part of our 9/3/2014 discussion.

Yours truly promised them that he would post in the second section of entitled “Possible Topics for Future Meetings” a Proposed Topic on the Palestinian issue which would include an extensive recital of the “facts” as alleged by Yours Truly.

The reason for the extensive recital of the “facts” is that discussions bog down in frustration if instead of discussing principles, participants are arguing over facts.

Accordingly, if anyone wants to discuss the Palestinian issue as part of the 9/3/2014 meeting AND WANTS TO DISPUTE ANY “FACTS” POSTED ON OUR BULLETIN BOARD, please post ON THE BULLETIN BOARD AT LEAST 24 HOURS IN ADVANCE your alternative facts AND supporting citations as a courtesy to other participants -- any discussion of principles on 9/3/2014 will be fine but time limitations require that any factual disputes not posted on the bulletin board will be ruled out of order.

We hope to see each of you on THIS COMING WEDNESDAY!!!

Your friend,

John K.

PS -- To un-subscribe, please press "reply" and type "deletion requested."

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