Whether the NIH Rules Permit Chimeras with Human Brains

On 8/5/2016, John Karls proposed a topic entitled ““Clone Rights: Involuntary Soldiers, Sex Slaves, Human ‘Lab Rats’ Etc.” which began -

“I propose that we study today’s NIH Proposal for Human Stem Cell Research.

“This would dovetail nicely with the focus of our 4/9/2008 meeting 8 years ago entitled “Clone Rights: Involuntary Soldiers, Sex Slaves, Human ‘Lab Rats’ Etc.” for which we viewed together -

“The 2005 Hollywood movie “The Island” which starred Ewan McGregor and Scarlett Johansson, and which dealt with the creation of human clones whose organs, whenever needed by their human “sponsors” who had financed their creation, could be harvested for transplant to the “sponsor” while the clones, of course, died;

“and for which our short meeting description was -

“How would you like to be an involuntary soldier, sex slave, human "lab rat" etc. WITH NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS JUST BECAUSE (1) the stem cells from which you were created came from skin cells rather than an embryo, or (2) your DNA is only 99% of the way from chimp DNA to human DNA (or any of the chimp-human DNA combinations the Yale U Biology Dept has created and is creating)??? Re (2), how do legal classifications based on % of human DNA differ from legal classifications in the Old South based on % of African-American blood, or legal classifications in Hitler's Third Reich based on % of Jewish blood???

“There follows immediately below a description of the NIH proposal in Nature (the International Weekly Journal of Science), following which is the text of the NIH proposal itself as it appeared today in the Federal Register.”

1/29/2017 UPDATE

On 1/29/2017, John Karls updated the proposal while changing the title to “Is The Fed Gov (NIH) Funding Nazi-Style Death Camps?” for which it is respectfully suggested the correct answer is “not yet, but soon.”

The up-dating comprised 4 postings regarding the Salk Institute announcing the creation of Human-Pig Chimeras for purposes of cloning human organs for transplant to the human whose DNA had been combined with pig DNA.

[“Chimera” is an animal created from DNA of two different species.]

Salk’s Human-Pig Chimeras were aborted before birth.

Under the 8/5/2016 NIH rules, there is NO PROHIBITION against the creation of Chimeras that have cloned human organs, even if doing so requires that the Chimera has a human or near-human brain.


As can be seen from the beginning of the 1/29/2017 posting entitled “Human-Pig Chimeras - Decent Behavior Despite Open Barn Door” and the conclusion of the 1/29/2017 posting entitled “Is The Fed Gov (NIH) Funding Nazi-Style Death Camps?” - John Karls took the moral stand that he would have nothing to do with our March 8th meeting unless it focused on this topic.

To obtain the last 2 votes for a majority at our 2/8/2017 meeting, John had to agree NOT to use either the original title “Clone Rights...” or the updated title referring to “Nazi-Style Death Camps.”

The 2 holdouts suggested a title based on “chimeras.”

Fortunately, America is familiar with a fictional chimera - Sesame Street’s Miss Piggy who obviously has a human brain and presumably has human organs that are “ripe for the picking”!!!


For anyone who has not seen “The Island” (2005) starring Scarlett Johansson and Ewan McGregor, please do so. (It can be rented from Amazon.com for $3.99.)

And even if you have seen it, it is strongly recommended that you view it again while thinking of Scarlett Johansson as a Miss Piggy chimera.

In addition, you should read all of the 7 items contained in John Karls’ topic proposal. They are reproduced in a special section below entitled “Original Proposal Reference Materials.”

And as usual, you should read everything else that any of us posts in the “Participant Comments” or regular “Reference Materials” sections.
Jay Hansen
Site Admin
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:06 am

Whether the NIH Rules Permit Chimeras with Human Brains

Post by Jay Hansen »

---------------------------- Original Message -----------------------------
Subject: RE: Killing Millions of Clones for Their Human Organs – For March 8th
From: Jay Hansen
Date: Mon, February 13, 2017 7:20 am MST
To: ReadingLiberally-SaltLake@johnkarls.com

Dear John,

RE: Under the new NIH rules, there is no prohibition against creating chimeras that have human or near-human brains.

I don’t recall when, but I recall there being consideration of interdictions related to developing human clones using non-human primates (like baboons or chimps). I believe there was concern about introducing genetic flaws that would be too close to human to detect but which might pop out later (with unacceptable results).

Best regards,

Jay Hansen, PhD
Principal Medical Writer
Allergan Plc (NYSE: AGN)

---------------------------- Original Message -----------------------------
Subject: Re: RE: Killing Millions of Clones for Their Human Organs – For March 8th
From: ReadingLiberally-SaltLake@johnkarls.com
Date: Mon, February 13, 2017 9:54 pm MST
To: Jay Hansen

Dear Jay,

Thank you very much for your e-mail.

Which I will, in view of our long-standing friendship, view as a serious inquiry whether my topic proposal is accurate that there are no prohibitions in the new NIH guidelines regarding the creation of chimeras with human or near-human brains.

[After all, your e-mail could be interpreted as a query whether I am becoming senile.]

The short answer is that I would implore you to read the 7 postings comprising the Original Proposal which are collected in a section of www.ReadingLiberally-SaltLake.org entitled “Original Proposal Reference Materials -- Killing Millions of Sesame Street Miss Piggy’s For The Human Organs -- March 8.”

The third posting originally dated 8/9/2016 and entitled “Marked Changes To The 2009 Human Stem-Cell Research Guidelines” show you precisely what the original 2009 National Institute of Health (NIH) guidelines said VER BATIM -- (1) with 8/6/2016 additions shown in ALL CAPS, and (2) with 8/6/2016 deletions shown in brackets [ ]. Substitutions, of course, are shown as a combination of an addition and a deletion.

I would challenge you to specify what provision in the ver batim text of the NIH guidelines prohibits the creation of chimeras with human or near-human brains.

In addition, I would strongly urge you to re-read the “Mixed Reviews” section of the 8/5/2016 article in Nature, the text of which is contained in the first posting in “Original Proposal Reference Materials” entitled “Clone Rights -- Involuntary Soldiers, Sex Slaves, Lab Rats, etc.”

Thirdly, I would call your attention to the 6th full paragraph of the 1/26/2017 Washington Post article, the text of which is contained in the fourth posting in “Original Proposal Reference Materials” entitled “Human-Pig Chimeras -- Decent Behavior Despite Open Barn Door” which 6th full paragraph of the Washington Post article says --

“The technique is already the subject of a vigorous debate about the ethics of introducing human material into animals; since 2015, the National Institutes of Health has had a moratorium on funding for certain human-animal chimera research. (The new study was performed in California at the Salk Institute without federal funds.) Some argue that, since stem cells can become any kind of tissue, including parts of the nervous system, chimeras raise the specter of an animal with a human brain or reproductive organs. Others think there's a symbolic or sacred line between human and animal genetic material that should not be crossed.”

Finally, since I know you hold in high regard Dr. Charles Krauthammer, I would call your attention to his opinion which he voiced on the 1/27/2017 edition of Fox News Special Report With Bret Baier.

BTW, many admirers of Dr. Krauthammer are not aware that he became permanently paralyzed as a result of a swimming pool diving accident while in his first year at Harvard Medical School. After 14 months recovering and still a virtual quadriplegic for the rest of his life (he does have limited use of one hand), he resumed his studies at Harvard Medical School and became, for many years, a practicing psychiatrist before changing careers to become a Pulitzer-Prize-winning political commentator syndicated in more than 400 publications worldwide, in addition to serving as a nightly panelist on Fox News Special Report.

As you are probably aware, Bret Baier concludes the Friday edition of Special Report each week by asking each panelist to name her/his “winner of the week” and “loser of the week” with a brief explanation for each choice.

On 1/27/2017, the “loser of the week” chosen by Dr. Krauthammer was “the human race”!!!

Quoting Dr. Krauthammer --

“The loser, I hate to be apocalyptic, is the human race. We just had the worst news of the year. Scientists have announced the creation of a Pig-Human Chimera, which when they injected human stem cells into a pig embryo and produced a creature that is part human and part pig – the reason is to produce…..”

Bret Baier, interrupting -- “Do we have a picture of this thing.”

Dr. Krauthammer, continuing --

“You don’t grow it to the size it could actually be born. They want to use it to grow organs, human organs in pigs. But the implications of this are simply staggering. We shouldn’t be doing anything near this despite the fact that it holds out some promise for making spare parts. This, if you’re not scared by this, you don’t understand what’s going on.”

I hope you and Marcia will decide to RSVP for March 8th.

And thank you again for your e-mail.

Your friend,

John K.

PS: Thank you for your other e-mail of earlier today volunteering to continue participating in our Working Group opposing “The Wanton Destruction of Great Salt Lake.”


Return to “Original Proposal – Killing Millions of Sesame Street Miss Piggy’s For The Human Organs – March 8”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest